10 Reasons Jesus Would Get Kicked Out Of Church

10 Reasons Jesus Would Get Kicked Out Of Church

We often like to transplant ourselves into the Bible when we read the scriptures.

Especially the gospels.

I mean who doesn’t like to imagine themselves there in the midst of Jesus’ ministry.

Now obviously you and I would be two of the 12 disciples… we’re pretty awesome, right?

But sometimes I find myself thinking… maybe I’m more like a Pharisee.

Especially when we consider how offensive Jesus was at times.

I was thinking about this today as I was reading the scriptures and thought I’d bash out this short list of just a few reasons we’d kick Jesus right out of our churches!

(And remember this isn’t a non-believer coming into church for the first time… this guy was a self appointed leader of the faith!)

  1. Rumour had it he was a drunk!

  2. He befriended prostitutes.

  3. He frequently failed to “honour the leaders” of church

  4. He failed to “keep the Sabbath”

  5. He refused to judge sinners for their sins!

  6. He was focused on having people experience Heaven on Earth rather than get to Heaven when they die.

  7. He frequently violated (our interpretation of) the law

  8. He didn’t “avoid the appearance of evil”

  9. He was a friend of sinners

  10. He associated with corrupt government officials

  11. He was rumoured to be a glutton – actually never mind – we don’t mind that one in the church.

Obviously these are just a few things of the top of my head. But my hope is that we can come up with a much bigger list that will challenge us all to think about Jesus and the way we function as a church.

What are some of the reasons you can think of that would have gotten Jesus kicked out of church?

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89 Comments

  1. Jesus did not break the Sabbath He fulfilled it. he broke their_Jews definition of the Sabbath. God can’t break His own holy laws.

    • Hi Pat,

      It’s all a matter of perspective I guess.

      My point here is that much of what WE interpret to be “Biblical” would probably be broken by Jesus for the same reasons as well.

      Just ruined their interpretation of God’s laws…

      Not only that but He did in fact categorically break the law as given by God through Moses.

      The law – “Don’t touch lepers”
      Jesus – Touches lepers

      The law – “Don’t touch dead people”
      Jesus – Touches dead people

      The law – “If anyone touches a woman on her period they are unclean and must remove themselves from others till the evening”
      Jesus – Lets a woman on her period touch Him and continues on His merry way.

      I’m not advocating breaking the law – I’m just pointing out that Jesus sure would have rubbed people the wrong way as He fulfilled the spirit of the law while not necessarily obeying the letter of the law.

      Thanks so much for sharing – hopefully that clarified the point I was making.

      • On the way to raise the dead girl, Jesus does not defile Himself, but rather the woman with the issue of blood renders him ceremonially unclean so He doesn’t have to defile Himself, thus keeping the Torah, yet the manmade “gate laws” got broken purposefully and He called them on it in Mark 7:9 ” And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition”. He called them on these “gate laws” a couple of times.

        • Hi John – I’m not familiar with your use of the term “gate laws” – I presume you are talking about the Talmud?

          I agree that He really frustrated the laws in the Tulmud as they were largely mens interpretations of the law and mostly a debacle.

          However you can’t get around the fact that Jesus broke certain laws that are clearly outlined in the Torah.

          Specifically the three I mention – although you do touch on the woman touching Jesus it doesn’t change the fact He broke the law. Yes He didn’t touch her breaking the law (like He did with Jarius’ daughter and the leper) but He does continue to minister (Luke 8:49 “While he was still speaking [to the woman], someone from the ruler’s house came and said, “Your daughter is dead; do not trouble the Teacher any more.” 50 But Jesus on hearing this answered him, “Do not fear; only believe, and she will be well.” 51 And when he came to the house…”). This is a direct disobedience to the law which said He was to immediately remove himself from everyone until the evening as He was now unclean having been touched.

          Hope that clarifies what I was saying.

          • Regarding gate laws… I grew up calling them fence laws. You build a fence around sin, so that you stay even further from it.

            “The Law says not to get drunk, and I don’t want to sin, so I’ll stay away from drinking altogether. So I’ll stay away from places that sell alcohol or permit alcohol. So I’ll also stay away from people that frequent such places. So I’ll condemn anyone who has a different conviction from me, because after all, my beliefs are built on the Bible.”

            Yeah, it’s the Talmud and the Mishnah for modern-day Gentiles.

          • Pat,
            I understand your “fence” laws and what you mean, but as Christians we are not to condemn anyone. We are to be loving just as Christ is loving. Condemn means to express complete disapproval of someone/something, and that is not our job. Judging/condemnation is left to the Father alone. We are all left to struggle on our life’s journey…knowing that we are no better than others because we are all saved by grace. And condemnation should be found NO WHERE.

          • I may be wrong but I don’t think Pat was saying that’s a good thing Renne – I think he was using it as an example of how destructive it can be.

    • Actually Jesus fulfilled the law on the cross yes?. However it was BEFORE the cross happened that he was breaching Sabbath. He did not make claim “Oh hey it is OK … I fulfilled this thing” he actually said ‘the law was made to serve man… not man to serve the law”. I agree with the article, Jesus’ utilitarian actions would get him kicked out of the church… because we do serve the bible (laws thereof) first and God second.

      • Very true! I frequently find myself wondering this myself. Are we serving God or the Bible – and even more scarily – our interpretation of the Bible (because lets face it that’s what we believe). Thanks for sharing!

  2. Dear Reverend Drysdale:

    My mother used to say:

    “Get out of here, Jesus, we”re having church!”

    I told that to a Theology Professor at Princeton, and he asked me: “Caleb, may I use that in a sermon?”

    I replied: “Surely. With pleasure.”

    And so may you.

    Have a Dovely.

    Sincerely yours,
    Caleb Boone.

    • Haha – I like that a lot Caleb – made me laugh! Probably far too applicable in a lot of church services… certainly ones I’ve led in the past!

  3. He would have been killed even today… They had a good deal going in several towns, performing to packed revival crowds with no end in sight. Yet Jesus decided to leave and break new ground, most times in the open countryside and fringe places. And he did it just as things were really picking up in his current location. I mean, think of the revenue in tithes and offerings he lost. Think of the concession sales he missed. Think of the opportunities for large scale growth and church planting that went untapped.
    He continually ignored his appearance, choosing instead dusty roads and dusty clothes and travel by foot rather than $3000 turn of the millenium Armani suits, perfect hair and teeth, and big fancy wagons pulled by big showy horses. I mean, what kind of image was this? Where was the first impression ‘wow’ factor? Who would take a dusty dirty footman seriously? How could he impress everyone by travelling and looking the way he did?
    He chose to go to the people that most of society hated. Who could trust a person who chose to hang around with social outcasts and the dregs of society? I mean, sure you could do the occasional outreach or ministry work to them, but to actually associate with them twenty four hours a day, seven days a week? And to make these people the one’s he used as his audience where he performed the vast majority of his miracles? What was he thinking, performing to people without money, influence, or social standing.
    And look at his inner circle: four smelly fishermen – probably more but it isn’t clear – a low life tax collector, a zealot, a guy who walks with Jesus for three years and still doubts, and a guy who Jesus knows from the first moment he is hired will wind up selling him out for money. And of the bunch they constantly argue, posture and position, and spend half their internship misunderstanding the Message and need clarification. No degrees, no experience, no gemstones on anyone’s resume, nothing amongst them that cries out and says ‘qualified to lead’. Not exactly an executive team that inspires me, that’s for sure.
    He fed 5,000 people on one occasion, then 4,000 (or 3,000 depending on translation) all of it for free out of ministry possessions. Think of the lost revenue on concessions that happened! His ministry board must have been ripping mad!
    He continually alienated the religious leaders of the time. What pastor in his right mind destroys the possibilities to network and set up good working relationships that can be used later for ministry gains?
    Finally, Jesus loses it in the main temple and tosses out the money changers and vendors without at first trying to set up his own booth or work the crowd to get his teaching scrolls or latest book in the market. Afterwards he doesn’t take charge of the niche economy that he now controls. Outrageous!
    No wonder Judas sold him out. As a pastor, he violated just about every rule that governs many big modern day ministries

    • Haha – VERY well written Jim. In fact I liked it better than my blog :)

      Thanks for sharing – far too true!

  4. I’m not getting you on the “He did not judge sinners for their sins”. Yes, He forgave the woman caught in adultery, but then he told her to go and sin no more. I know He did not come to condemn the world but that we could be saved…if we don’t recognize our sin then how can we go through that process and what were the 10 Commandmnets for then? I fully believe that He loves us all with crazy love but I also believe He calls us to dump our smelly, rotten sin and turn to Him…to much better!

    • Hi Patty,

      I see your point – here are a few thoughts…

      You don’t need to understand hate to love.

      You don’t need to understand sin to be righteous.

      You don’t need to experience darkness to walk in light.

      I’ve never met a person who wasn’t aware of their failings… people don’t need to know about their failings… they need to know of Christ’s free gift of righteousness and grace.

      We as Christians love to focus on the bad news as a preamble to the good news. The truth is good news is good news either way. I think we could all do with focusing on the good news a whole lot more. I know which side of the scale I’d rather err on if I was to err at all.

      Just a few thoughts anyway.

      As for the 10 commandments – I can only highly recommend you watch my in depth video on the law and the purpose of the law – http://phildrysdale.com/work/christians-are-not-under-the-law-full-13226mins/

      If you don’t have time for the video you can read this article instead:

      http://phildrysdale.com/2012/10/whats-the-role-of-the-law-in-the-new-covenant/

      Hope that helps.

      • Yes we need to focus on the good news and goodness but that doesn’t mean we should live in sin or not ignore it. The Bible says to die to our flesh(Rom 8:13) and the more closer with get with the Holy Spirit the more of our sins are exposed and of course He will help us. A christian doesn’t mean he stops growing and maturing. We will fall, but how we rise up and keep going is what it’s all about. That’s the good news and the goodness :) God bless you!

        • Thanks for sharing Tiny! As you say – we totally need to be focusing on what is good. Like you said about Romans 8 – dying to flesh happens by focusing on living in the Spirit! Our focus will determine our direction. That’s why it’s so important as Christians we continually change our focus (repent).

      • > I’ve never met a person who wasn’t aware of their failings… people don’t need to know
        > about their failings… they need to know of Christ’s free gift of righteousness and grace.

        I know a LOT of people who don’t know about their failings! Most people know much better about the failings of other people…
        You need both the exposure of your own self-righteousness AND the gospel of radical grace.

        • Well that’s very true we are all great at judging others. The key is however the Bible is extremely clear that the Holy Spirit is the one that convicts unbelievers of their sins. We are not called to do so! We are called to preach good news to them.

          The Holy Spirit helps them come to terms with where they are.. Our job is not to point out their failings and sins… Our job is to point out Christ’s great success in setting them free from their sins.

          Thanks for sharing Martin :)

  5. Well since he is the head if HIS church (singular) he can’t be kicked out and his words(plural) will be what judges us on the day of Judgement and he is the Word, so we better be very careful how we interpret them.

    • Haha – yes very true Nancy. I’m not sure any of us have that permission ;)

      I was more talking about the institution of the church than the ekklesia i.e. “The Church”

  6. Jesus would tell the truth which would challenge and offend the church; He would not mince His words which i’m sure would not go down well with many especially the church leaders…

    • So true – a lot of the time ignorance is much less painful than the truth… At least in our perception.

      We just want to keep being lied to. God forbid someone should break the truth to us!

      Thanks for sharing Marisa

  7. Phil it sounds like you’re running out of writing material. You can do better than this.

    He failed to “keep the Sabbath” He kept it 100% Mat 12:12

    He refused to judge sinners for their sins! Slammed the pharisees & rebuked the rich

    He was focused on having people experience Heaven on Earth rather than get to Heaven when they die.
    Phil, this is absolute nonsense. He constantly focused on heaven & eternity…treasures in heaven….store up where no rust etc….lose life to save it & host more & the apostles carried it on…..if in this life only you have hope in Christ you’re OF ALL MEN MOST MISERABLE. They wouldn’t teach it if the Lord Jesus didn’t.
    Go tell christians in Sudan, CAR,Somalia & 3 dozen other countries this gospel, even all the apostles & see you’ll the horror on their faces. They all “sought a city with foundations whose builder & maker is God” They counted their present lives as nothing.
    Even the Lord Jesus despised the cross etc….for the joy set before Him. i could fill 10 screens on this topic. Christians are FAR TOO FOCUSED on this life. Tthink of how it is in heaven. It’s spirit, no time, no distance things way beyond what we can imagine & all we can think of is no pain, peace, plenty money etc etc. So pitifully futile & small in the light of Heavens glories. We can have a LITTLE of it now, but it’ll only come when the Lord Jesus returns. It will NEVER be heaven on earth till He comes in glory & establishes it. Read what it will be like in the prophesies of the last days & His coming.
    Missed it BADLY here Phil

    He frequently violated (our interpretation of) the law. You got a bad interpretation phil

    He didn’t “avoid the appearance of evil” He did, absolutely. Never got near it & it never got near Him. he associated with folk who sin with a view for them to forsake it, thats VERY different.

    Your first few answers to Patti are not correct.
    According to scripture we do need to know wrong to learn right.
    You speak from a perspective of knowing wrong.
    Paul said he didn’t know wrong till the law told him what he couldn’t do

    • Ian – i think you an Phil are both right. Jesus preached a MIXTURE of Law and Grace. To those who needed it, like the Pharisees, he preached law at them. To those who needed Grace, they received not his condemnation, but his forgiveness and grace.

      Our ultimate destination is not heaven. Christians seem to not read to the end of their bibles. Our destination is the New Earth. Eden restored. When Jesus says to bring heaven to earth, he is referring to bringing spiritual realities to earth, replacing fallen ones. Hes not trying to bring a place here. Our focus IMHO is to bring the Kingdom rule and reign to earth, not so much heaven. Jesus was all about his fathers business – kingdom work. All his parables were trying to show us just that. Kingdom realities. We are super obsessed with heaven and hell in our generation. 1st C jews, not so much.

      • Absolutely Tracy! Thanks for sharing – the context of Jesus teachings is huge. I can’t overstate enough that we must consider who he is speaking to and why!

        Understanding how obsessed the Jews were with God’s kingdom (not heaven but a very earthly rule) we gain a lot of insight into Jesus’ ministry which was not about escaping the earth but about transforming it!

        Thanks for sharing your thoughts as always!

    • Hey Ian – thanks for sharing your views. I’m sure many people will agree with your views on this post.

      I’m personally not going to get into a debate with you over this. You frequently comment on my posts with lists of why you disagree and I always do my best to answer but honestly it feels like we are having the same discussion over and over again about the same things.

      We clearly see things very differently – that’s fine. And I’m happy to talk about these things with you as I’ve done dozens of times on this blog.

      However honestly I don’t feel very respected in the way you communicate your disagreement. You may feel strongly that I’m wrong and you are right… And you may well be right on many things! But honestly I’ve yet to feel you have once tried to understand where I’m coming from.

      Frankly I’m confused as to why you read my blogs if you dislike them so much. It feels you read them to give me a report on what you find so incorrect about them.

      For that reason please know that I won’t be replying to your comments for a while – I simply don’t have the time. I get hundreds of emails / comments etc a day from people interested in learning and discussing in a healthy way and simply can’t devote my time to having fruitless debates online.

      I hope you understand this and can read it in the context of the many comments we’ve sent back and forth. I have nothing but love and respect for you but just don’t see this as good use of either my time or yours.

      Bless you my friend, thanks for sharing your thoughts all the same.

    • Ian – I love what you’re saying. It seems like it’s becoming a popular thought to view Jesus as an earthly minded hippie humanitarian whose greatest mission is to meet people’s earthly needs, feeding the hungry and clothing the naked etc. but that’s only a fraction of the focus of His life. It’s exhausting to try to entertain those ideas.

  8. What would you think if a man showed up at your church claiming to not just walk on water in the shower?

    • I don’t mind tattoos Patrick but I have to confess you’ll be waiting a long time if you plan on waiting for me to get one ;)

      Glad you were blessed by the post!

    • Hi Jack – on my phone right now but off the top of my head I think it’s Matt 11:19 you want.

      Rough paraphrase – “He was called a drunk and a glutton, a friend of tax collectors and sinners”

      Hope that helps clarify – it should help clarify a few of the points above :)

  9. Tracy, you hit the nail on the head!!
    Many people miss the point of christianity because of our selfish westernized cultures!

  10. I agree that Jesus would not be welcome in many churches. Not sure if all the reasons listed would hod up though.

    • No worries JD. We don’t have to agree on any of them never mind all of them!

      That said if you want to discuss them further I’d love to :)

  11. Don’t forget that Hesus was also poor. That is not exactly a trait that most church leaders are trying to attract. Poor people can’t contribute much in the way if tithes and offerings…that doesn’t help the budget. Just another reason Jesus would be shunned, at the very least, from most churches today.

    • Great point Chris – we can definitely tend to like nice prim and proper people in our churches.

      My father was a pastor and would frequently get in a lot of trouble for the people he would get saved mid-week and bring along to church… you wouldn’t believe the likes! Poor, homeless, adulterers… sinners!

      People love church a lot more than the gospel at times I guess :(

  12. I thought of some! (viewing him as a LEADER of the church) He kissed men, He yelled at people who were mourning at a funeral, In a full out rage, he turned over the CD and over priced books table (oops I mean) money changers tables in the temple, He was a man who was keenly interested in little children being around him, oh the list goes on and on LOL. Great List! Really hit my Pharisee bone.

    • He really would be a fascinating person to have on the board of elders wouldn’t He Lisa?

      That’s a great list – some of them have gone and hit my Pharisee bone now, which was exactly what I was hoping for in asking people to share :)

  13. I apologize Phil.
    I am unfortunately a very forthright person. I certainly dont mean to offend or be rude.
    I read your posts etc because if one only reads what one agrees with you never learn. Everyone has some truth & I like to read, compare & consider. How do we learn if we only listen to what we already think, know & agree with. I love differing thoughts to mine. I just don’t know how to do it diplomatically like you :(
    I agree with a lot of your stuff but only comment on what I don’t agree on. I merely state my opinion & don’t want to debate, theres no point in it, or for you to even reply.
    Please don’t be offended by my disagreeing with you, but I certainly do apologize for my forthrightness….it’s just me, I don’t intend to offend. You have a wonderful gift to be so diplomatic, that i would love to have.
    By the way, I supported your issue on the importance of reading the bible in your last post :)

    • Hi Ian,

      Thanks so much for responding – I’m really sorry for misinterpreting your intentions. It’s very hard online with only one side of the story so I can only apologise for that.

      I totally get what you say about reading things we disagree with – it’s pretty much all I read these days as it’s the best way to grow and be challenged to solidify what we do believe. So I deeply respect that about you and your choice to do that!

      I look forward to discussing more with you in the future. Please don’t let this dissuade you from commenting again I’ll try to read it in light of your comment here and know your heart is to discuss and learn and challenge one another. :)

      Appreciate you my friend!

  14. He probably wouldn’t be in church every Sunday (unless it was his custom). But if he were, he wouldn’t go with our program. He’d be healing someone in a wheelchair in the midst of the sermon or casting out a demon during announcements. He’d be an itinerant preacher/healer who’d go from downtown to downtown and not have a registered not-for-profit organization and not have his own building. He would probably be at odds with a lot of religious leaders so he most likely won’t be welcome at most worship services.

    • Very interesting to think just how much Jesus’ ministry just didn’t fit with our ideas of church. Thanks for sharing Ruel!

      • Tell me if I am wrong,….but wasn’t it mans idea of a church (building) in the first place??? God just gave the murmuring people what they wanted. I often wonder if that didn’t happen how we would worship today??? How would we view different topics, such as denomonational differences? If worship was as God intended maybe things would be a whole lot better, I take that back….things would be a lot better. I get so upset when different denomonations are so harsh on others. We all should work together as God intended. Just an example: Our church invited other churches in our area to gather together for prayer on a very important issue…..some of the responses were unbelievable. Just because of so called differences.

        • Interesting point you raise Debbie.

          It is interesting to think that we created what we call church today… Not God. He’ll work with what we give Him and many aspects of church is great but the Church (ekklesia) is far from dependent on what we call the church today.

          Thanks for sharing!

  15. Phil, you are amazing. You are such a rich blessing to so very many. You speak honestly from the heart with integrity. You are thought provoking in such a way that all that can happen is greater intimacy with our beloved Jesus. That is truly all we need. God bless you. Linda

  16. Haha … I thought of two reasons.
    1. Jesus provided ‘New’ Wine for the congregation
    2. Jesus teaches ‘Prosperity’ (Abundance) “I came that you might have life, and have it more abundantly”.

  17. I hate when people say “Jesus hung out with prostitutes/tax collectors/sinners/etc.” to justify their points. That’s really not true at all.

    Jesus brought hope to prostitutes, tax collectors, sinner, etc. He showed them love. He showed them forgiveness by eating with them. He commanded them to stop sinning. He changed their lives. When you say “hung out”, it paints a miserable picture of the way He actually interacted with people. He didn’t just show up for dinner, hang out, have empty conversation, give them high fives, and leave. Let’s not represent it that way.

    • Thanks for sharing your perspective on this Andy.

      I can see where you come from and I certainly don’t think anyone would say Jesus would have been having empty conversations with them or encouraging their sins. I would say that’s a misunderstanding of what people are saying.

      I think this concept of Jesus “hanging out” with sinners has a lot of merit though.

      He frequently had conversations and even meals with people and failed to ever mention their sins. People frequently brought their own sins up and turned their lives around in His presence but actually there are a strikingly tiny amount of cases recorded where Jesus brings up the sins of “sinners”.

      We must remember the context of sinners here is people who have walked away from the faith of Judaism or completely heathen entirely. The phrase was not used of Jews who were devout in their faith but sinned.

      (Now they however… Those who were hypocritical were the ones Jesus had no problem pointing out the sin of.)

      I would say that Jesus was well regarded as the “friend of sinners” gives us an overwhelming contextual argument (as well as the many stories of him befriending sinners) to suggest that Jesus did indeed frequently “hang out” – that is, spend time with sinners.

      Hope that helps you see where I’m coming from. Thanks again for sharing.

      • I do understand where you’re coming from, but something you said even furthers my point – “People frequently brought their own sins up and turned their lives around in His presence.”

        The sinners he fellowshipped with.. their lives were changed, and as far as I know, there’s not an instance where they weren’t (willing to be wrong about this). On the other hand, I have known far too many Christians who use that idea, that Jesus was a friend of sinners, to justify their casual relationships with friends who aren’t Christians, with the idea in their head that simply because they’re friends with them, they’re being like Jesus. But that’s just not the case. I see those relationships with no real transformation and that doesn’t reflect Jesus, the friend of sinners.

        So that’s why I feel that way – I get sick of people using that idea as a justification for those relationships.

        I have a hard time thinking many modern churches would have a problem with Jesus being a friend of sinners because that would almost be like saying “I don’t like people repenting of sins” or “I don’t like people giving their lives to follow Jesus.” They go hand in hand.

        • Thanks for replying Andy – great points about transformation of those around us. I totally agree…

          What I’ve personally found is that I’ve seen WAY more people saved through friendship without ever pushing the gospel down people’s throats than I’ve seen with more traditional methods. I can only speak from that.

          I’ve done street evangelism etc for years, held youth rallies and done big public meetings which encourage non-believers to come in.

          Combined they haven’t seen as many people saved as I’ve seen just “hanging out” with unbelievers, being myself and watching them beg me to tell them about Christ.

          Again, just my experience – but it’s my blog so I wouldn’t be expected to speak about anything else :)

  18. I honestly agree with you 100% on this and have often tried to share like views with others. I grew up as a Christian in the way most see it today. Later in life, I never lost that faith but began to question, search, learn, and research many parts of my religion that bothered me. In the end, I now have a stronger faith and understanding of Christianity, but it doesn’t match what I see in a church on Sundays. I admire you for standing up for your personal beliefs on this. I too have given some pearls of wisdom, not bashing Christ, just the way his followers go more against his ways than with. Most would like to hang me on the cross for even considering such ideas. But as a man of Christ, I just throw it out there and leave it be. You will have to do the same. Don’t follow in their footsteps by judging you on some comments. Follow Christ, turn the other cheek, have a glass of wine, and keep on with the good word.

    • Thanks so much for the encouragement Ben – it’s very true that many of us (myself included if I’m honest with myself) just don’t like the idea of having to walk the walk of our faith. We’d much rather distort the gospel and live a comfortable lie and live an uncomfortable truth.

  19. Hey Phil I have a cousin who is asking me for a scripture to support your #6 statement regarding the “Heaven on earth” that Jesus wanted us to experience. Could you plz help me out? She is not familiar with the Grace message BTW.
    THANKS for all you do!

    • Hey Eric – great question with too much to begin answering in full but here are a few thoughts:

      Aside from the obvious of telling to us to pray His will would be done ON EARTH as in Heaven (which seems pretty clear) I think we can see this in every moment of his ministry.

      Jesus was obsessed with us having an abundant life! Here while on the Earth! As originally intended before the fall.

      We look at His ministry and He constantly looked after people’s very physical needs as well as spiritual. He healed thousands upon thousands, commented consistently on looking after the poor, homeless, widow, orphan etc. and He fed people.

      Heck He raised people from the dead – if that’s not a commentary on this life being as important as the next I don’t know what is.

      When we read the Bible we actually find that until the texts added around 400BC the afterlife wasn’t really ever talked about. God and His people were very focused on talking about this life and that is why God created us.. To live on the Earth.

      In fact you may have noticed that when we will be raised to life there will be a new Heaven and a new Earth… What do you think is the purpose of a new earth if we are all leaving to live on Heaven? ;)

  20. I have loved reading your post ! My view is that its possible that when jesus did these things that A. the bible, (laws) stated somthing differant (and I know how impossible that is sence no one is sapposed to change the words in the bible, Crimanals arnt sapposed to have gones and do and drugs are still avalible to buy even if its agenst the law)
    2. That jesus new he wasnt going to catch cooties from a women on her monthly.. and im sure jesus new enough to wash his hands after touching dead bodys but he is jesus healing the sick and waking the dead dought he would be a bit harmed.. never the less all laws apply to everyone even jesus.
    So if jesus was doing good things in the name of god and setting a good example for all you have to question when and were were some laws changed? Reading everyones comments I can see Views of the bible very. In every language even words and meanings change..so how do you translate a dead language 100%? you don’t, humans fail and are flawed. Im going to go on a limb and say the drinking isnt bad its drinking to much all the time thats bad as well as eating to much all the time.I do beleve laws were but there for our safty, yet some ppl down the line saw fit to change such laws..best example is that women was created equal so why later on does she need to be underneath a man? why when she was created as a compliment to the man not sapposed to talk, pray etc? Who changed that to benefit themselfs there…What is and what was has changed if you read the bible cover to cover there are alot of questionable things that go on like prostitution and it being ok for a man to cheat on his wife or what about lots 2 girls having sex with there own father…Mabey just mabey churches today are corrupt and its not jesus that was in the wrong but the chuch systems today..

    • Thanks for sharing Sonja – I’m not sure I followed your train of thought entirely to be honest… but it’s 6am and I’ve been up since 3:30am on a trip to Switzerland so I might just be tired! haha

      I think for sure our understanding of the laws has evolved and Jesus definitely came and showed us the heart behind the laws (allowing him to break certain ones when they limited Him doing the Father’s will). We definitely have a tendency in the church to interpret the laws to suit ourselves (and our current leadership structures) and then hit anyone who disagrees with the Bible.

      I’m not sure I follow what you mean about the dead language as the Bible comprises almost entirely of Hebrew and Greek in the primary sources we have and they are both still very much used today so I think for the most part we can believe what is translated is what was there in the Greek and Hebrew initially. However there are many scholars who have differing views on the way the Bible was written who might contest that the authors may have changed the laws slightly between them being given (1360BC) and when the texts were initially written (estimated collectively between (960BC-500BC). Sorry that’s a slight bunny trail there.

      Thanks for commenting – feel free to clarify if I’ve completely missed something you were trying to say.

    • Hey David – I’m not sure who your question was directed to as I don’t see anyone saying Jesus was snarky. Can you elaborate a bit?

  21. Here is the #1 reason Jesus will get kicked out of most churches today and the reason many of you will most likely disagree and want to kick me. We have been taught this lie since we were all first saved. SO if Jesus showed up at your church and my church and started talking in the lobby to other Christians and told them something like this: “Hey guys, I just wanted to remind you that you no longer have a sin nature. You don’t have a sin problem. In fact, to view yourself as a sinner is to disobey me, trample the cross I died on for you and ignore the holy spirit and my Father in heaven.” Now think about that! I know the first thing that comes to mind is, Yeah, He died to take care of our sins once and for all, but we still sin I know that. We can’t even believe the scriptures on this as Christians. If you study the gospels and the new testament, you will find that sin, our nature to sin and everything pertaining to sin HAS BEEN DEALT WITH ONCE AND FOR ALL. SO why do we Christians get so caught up in identifying our selves as “sinners saved by grace”? We have to make sure that we acknowledge our sins and confess our sins and blah blah blah on our sins. Once I renewed my mind about me being a saint of God, and that He is dealing with our righteousness in Jesus, sin is no longer an issue. It comes from incorrect teaching. I don’t think Jesus in John 8:34 said If the Son sets you free, (except for the sins of your past or you do later on) you are free indeed. I have simplified it like this: Obedience is the key because God tells us who we are. God tells us what we can accomplish and we don’t believe it because we tend to believe our flesh and the world… what we see and experience in the natural…what is _true_ that we are sinners versus what is _truth_ that Jesus exchanged our sins and our nature to sin for his righteousness. We have to renew our minds and see ourselves the way Jesus the Holy Spirit in the father See us. It is what is true versus The Truth! The Pharisees were hung up on what is true. Jesus is the Truth and the Way and the Life.

    A running back is defined by what he does- a back that runs with the ball for a touchdown. The success of who he is is based on his identity. If his mind is set on his fumbles or his past mistakes, he will not grow and excell. Instead, he will continue to fumble and fail. Never do we call a running back a fumbler saved by grace; but we sure like to call ourselves sinners saved by grace. Compare our performance with this mindset. The church is preaching a message that is a magnet for fumbling. Ah, glad Jesus is always doing a new thing. Are you ready for some new wine? Get rid of that old mindset on the flesh. 1John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    An elite warrior like a SEAL does not define himself based on past mistakes or failures. His mindset is on the future mission and succeeding at all costs. He is focused on training and gaining at higher and higher levels. To identify with failure is to wash out of SEAL training.

    So, start discussing with other Christians that they no longer have a sin nature or are sinners. You may get kicked out of your church.

    • That’s a monster of a reason Dewey! Definitely a huge stumbling block for the majority of the church still unfortunately. One I am seeing gradually fall though which is very exciting!

      Thanks so much for sharing such a great point!

  22. Dear Phil,
    I get your point but just for the record in No.8 ” Appearance of evil ”
    Thats from 1Thess 5:22 which is translated “Appearance” in KJV.
    However I have it on good authority ( hearsay actually but from people I respect ) that that is a mistranslation of ” Every FORM of evil ” Perhaps the root has a common ( descriptive ) similarity but I understand it best as ” Evil , of whatever kind it may be ” so reads the Amplified. By that token , yes we know Jesus was often in the company of “particulary” sinful people and so qualifies for the KJV reading but not for the reading I have suggested ,as obviously, the sinless God the Son always abstained from every kind of evil , thereby qualifying as only He could for the second.And we are enjoined to do the same.

  23. Great thoughts ~ it’s too easy to become so committed to our way of doing things that we lose sight of His Way of living as the church He is building. A couple years ago, I posted a youth ministry take on this same issue: 7 things that would get Jesus fired from youth ministry. Basically,
    He doesn’t recognize our traditions as important,
    He’s not safe,
    He demands everything, and
    He made wine!

    My attempt at a comical take on the whole thing is at http://imminentcrash.com/7-things-that-would-get-jesus-fired-from-youth-ministry/

  24. Hi Phil, thanks for being a blessing. Your audio podcast and articles are transforming me radically and empowering me for effective ministry.

    Your indeed hit nails on their heads as i observed from your articles and podcast.

    Love you Phil and thanks once again for being a blessing!

  25. Hi there, I was wondering about your thoughts:

    Jesus never called Himself a friend of sinners, it were Jews (v16) that gave Him that name when they were mocking Him and John the Baptist:

    Mat11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.”[c]

    On an other occasion when they mocked Him again Jesus replies:

    Luk5:30 And their scribes and the Pharisees[b] complained against His disciples, saying, “Why do You eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” 31 Jesus answered and said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

    Jesus calls Himself a physician for sinners and a friend of His disciples (John15:14).

    • Absolutely Steven – I’m not saying it was something He called Himself although I think He would very proudly carry that title.

      My point is that this is the reputation He had… it clearly shows He spent a considerable time with sinners being extremely friendly.

      I’d refer to my other comments above regarding this as I’ve already talked about it quite in depth in those comments specifically in reply to Andy Ivy-Townley

      Hope that helps!

      • Hi Phil,

        Only in the eyes of the religious crowd, Jesus acted as a friend of sinners. Jesus corrected the viewpoint of the Pharisees by telling them His position was not as a friend, but a doctor.

        Doesn’t this statement automatically implies that His so-called friends were all sick?

        I don’t know if it makes sense to you, your blog surely makes me think again, about Jesus’ way of treating people. Cool

        • I see what you are saying – I just don’t think they are mutually opposed terms.

          I don’t stop calling my friends “friends” if they get sick… but I may well recommend a doctor and call them sick.

          I don’t see it as Him correcting them but rather Him telling them WHY He was choosing to befriend them.

  26. “He refused to judge sinners for their sins!”

    In the words of Beaver from Narnia: Lord love you son of Adam! What gave you that idea!

    I would add, Phil, don’t give up your day job and presume to teach good Christian people. Saying showie but inaccurate things – especially about Christ and his gospel – is harmful to others and leaves you at risk of causing His little ones to stumble.

    TK Maxx are hiring…

    • I’m not overly sure what your counter point was “Yousaidwhat” – do you have something that suggests Jesus came to judge sinners for their sins?

      Because Jesus Himself expressly says in John 12:47 “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

      That seems pretty clear to me personally.

      I’d be happy to dialogue with you on this.

  27. I think I have never seen anyone respond to EVERY comment before, when there are so many and lengthy. I feel bad commenting,lol, making more work for you, lol. Got even more lessons from reading all the commentary too. Cool.

  28. I feel it inside that Jesus would have had plenty to say if his disciples had had the facility to record (beyond H Sp inspired memory) on recording devices what he had said (even in private to them) and CHARGED money for it. For me (and I’ve heard all sorts of arguments to justify it that simply don’t wash) one of the biggest issues with adulterated mixture christianity is charging any money at all for mp3’s dvd’s memory sticks with ‘messages’ on them! Too absurd to be happening. When the day comes where the Lord’s Power is released more into those who want Him above all else the Ananias’s and his wife of this age will be caught out because they didn’t operate in love. Love to share what God gave you in the first place….big house, money, possessions. The current so-called church is pathetic, for the most part, with regard to this (even the prophetic type communities and those saying they want ‘the new’ God’s doing!). All or nothing. All in or lukewarm? There’s a big challenge ahead. “My people will be willing in the day of My power”.

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